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Kingdom of Trebia
#31
That is because we do an effort to think... My personal objective in restoring Christendom, and making Trebia secede, is not only to become a Leader, but gain personal knowledge and wisdom. To promote thought among people. Stupidity has been promoted in many societies, to preserve the sickness of consumerism. That's why I will ban consumerist policies (I'm a moderate, MODERATE, capitalist) once I take the power.

Some of my ideas may be seen a bit radical (I recognize they are radical) and even as retrogrades (which I do not think they are, I think they are the thing that society really needs). Some include labor penalty for prisoners, death penalty, even for pickpockets, snips below for sex offenders etc...

I also see war as something that could be used as the last option or as defence of a country. I believe that the lives lost in warfare are something that humanity should be used to deal with, because it is part of human nature. I do believe war can't be labeled as holy, because it is seen as an ultimate option to commit things that can be considered atrocities. Things labeled as holy are also out of human nature.
PAULUS AEMILIUS I, DUX TREBIAE
Paolo Emilio I, Caudillo of Trebia
DEUS, PATRIA, REX
#32
The death penalty for pickpocketing? Maybe for genocide, or gruesome torture and murder, but capital punishment for a non-violent crime?
Gabriel N. Pelger
Last Head of Executive of the defunct Usian Republic
Goodbye, everyone!
#33
(18 Dec 2014, 02:21:08)PavlvsAemilivs Wrote: That is because we do an effort to think... My personal objective in restoring Christendom, and making Trebia secede, is not only to become a Leader, but gain personal knowledge and wisdom. To promote thought among people. Stupidity has been promoted in many societies, to preserve the sickness of consumerism. That's why I will ban consumerist policies (I'm a moderate, MODERATE, capitalist) once I take the power.

If you study civilizations, you might find what I found, and other historians, including Arnold Toynbee, have found- in a nutshell "the path forward is always through the past." In other words, old civilizations, like the West, become morally barbaric, and yet they fancy their barbarism as progress and culture. NEW civilizations emerge as people try to recapture and re-institute the moral framework betrayed by the current society. So every new civilization looks remarkably like the old civilization in its spring time. But there are difference, and these differences make it a new civilization.

I personally believe a new Christian civilization is coming, based on a Biblical application of Unity in diversity, Popular sovereignty, Democratic equality, and Rule of law. In this new civilization freedom is predicated on moral virtue, personal liberty, and local independence.

Ancient Israel was a rule of law civilization.
The Greco-Roman civilization was a democratic equality civilization.
The German tribal civilization AND the 1st century Christian "church" were expressions of popular sovereignty.
Western civilization is a unity in diversity civilization.

Understanding these IDEALS in the context of their CHRISTIAN and Biblical meaning is, to my mind, a good starting point for seeing what will come, a Christian civilization whose people, nations, and even states are all guided by a BALANCE of these four core ideals, using all four together, not apart from one another.

Go here for more on these four core ideals; Upadaria.com

I should add, these four core ideals have been presented to learned scholars and have been found to be extremely useful for both preventing and resolving conflicts, for governance, and for healthy relationships. I discovered them, and their harmony, in 1982.

They express ancient and universal truths which our current Western society has rejected, in favor of hedonism, materialism, and the like. To restore such ideas, and similar ancient ways, is not merely going BACK, it is in fact the path to the future.

Bill
#34
Excellent, Bill, excellent! I heartily agree with everything you say. New civilizations do indeed seek to remake the best parts of a previous civilization. This is why I like micronations, cause their doing this all the time.

(18 Dec 2014, 08:08:32)Gabriel N. Pelger Wrote: The death penalty for pickpocketing? Maybe for genocide, or gruesome torture and murder, but capital punishment for a non-violent crime?

I agree with Gabriel. Death sentence for pickpockets is extremely harsh. Why do you do it? I mean, I'm sure no one has been executed for pickpocketing yet, but why do you have that law in place?
 
#35
(18 Dec 2014, 17:32:28)SoD Woods Wrote:
(18 Dec 2014, 08:08:32)Gabriel N. Pelger Wrote: The death penalty for pickpocketing? Maybe for genocide, or gruesome torture and murder, but capital punishment for a non-violent crime?

I agree with Gabriel. Death sentence for pickpockets is extremely harsh. Why do you do it? I mean, I'm sure no one has been executed for pickpocketing yet, but why do you have that law in place?

They did it in Renaissance Venice, and it worked quite fine, as everyone was rich in that city. However I am still openly minded and it is just something I considered, it may be changed.

(18 Dec 2014, 15:23:41)upadaria Wrote:
(18 Dec 2014, 02:21:08)PavlvsAemilivs Wrote: That is because we do an effort to think... My personal objective in restoring Christendom, and making Trebia secede, is not only to become a Leader, but gain personal knowledge and wisdom. To promote thought among people. Stupidity has been promoted in many societies, to preserve the sickness of consumerism. That's why I will ban consumerist policies (I'm a moderate, MODERATE, capitalist) once I take the power.

If you study civilizations, you might find what I found, and other historians, including Arnold Toynbee, have found- in a nutshell "the path forward is always through the past." In other words, old civilizations, like the West, become morally barbaric, and yet they fancy their barbarism as progress and culture. NEW civilizations emerge as people try to recapture and re-institute the moral framework betrayed by the current society. So every new civilization looks remarkably like the old civilization in its spring time. But there are difference, and these differences make it a new civilization.

I personally believe a new Christian civilization is coming, based on a Biblical application of Unity in diversity, Popular sovereignty, Democratic equality, and Rule of law. In this new civilization freedom is predicated on moral virtue, personal liberty, and local independence.

Ancient Israel was a rule of law civilization.
The Greco-Roman civilization was a democratic equality civilization.
The German tribal civilization AND the 1st century Christian "church" were expressions of popular sovereignty.
Western civilization is a unity in diversity civilization.

Understanding these IDEALS in the context of their CHRISTIAN and Biblical meaning is, to my mind, a good starting point for seeing what will come, a Christian civilization whose people, nations, and even states are all guided by a BALANCE of these four core ideals, using all four together, not apart from one another.

Go here for more on these four core ideals; Upadaria.com

I should add, these four core ideals have been presented to learned scholars and have been found to be extremely useful for both preventing and resolving conflicts, for governance, and for healthy relationships. I discovered them, and their harmony, in 1982.

They express ancient and universal truths which our current Western society has rejected, in favor of hedonism, materialism, and the like. To restore such ideas, and similar ancient ways, is not merely going BACK, it is in fact the path to the future.

Bill

Indeed, it is the past glory of Western Civilization that must be restored. To be honest, even the Dark ages weren't really dark, I'll write more about it later.
PAULUS AEMILIUS I, DUX TREBIAE
Paolo Emilio I, Caudillo of Trebia
DEUS, PATRIA, REX
#36
(18 Dec 2014, 18:16:18)PavlvsAemilivs Wrote:
(18 Dec 2014, 17:32:28)SoD Woods Wrote:
(18 Dec 2014, 08:08:32)Gabriel N. Pelger Wrote: The death penalty for pickpocketing? Maybe for genocide, or gruesome torture and murder, but capital punishment for a non-violent crime?

I agree with Gabriel. Death sentence for pickpockets is extremely harsh. Why do you do it? I mean, I'm sure no one has been executed for pickpocketing yet, but why do you have that law in place?

They did it in Renaissance Venice, and it worked quite fine, as everyone was rich in that city. However I am still openly minded and it is just something I considered, it may be changed.

Ok thought a bit on it. Pickpockets, when they take your purse, they take your money, driver's license, personal identity chart, any passport you may have, car keys etc... So no matter if violent or no, the victim's life is still ruined by the loss of it's purse. So, it is a way to screw up someone's life without violence, because then you may take his personal identity, break the law, and get that person into trouble, so yes, pickpocketing is enough reason for hanging. So does armed robbery.
PAULUS AEMILIUS I, DUX TREBIAE
Paolo Emilio I, Caudillo of Trebia
DEUS, PATRIA, REX
#37
But just hold on a minute. I understand your efforts to bring back Christendom at its height, but you should only bring back the good parts of it. Just because Venice hanged pickpockets doesn't mean that Trebia has to do it as well. If a pickpocket victim has his wallet returned when the pickpocket is caught, then yes, the pickpocket should be punished in some way, and I would say a year or so in jail. But the pickpocket is a person too, and we as Christians should follow our law and not break it in the sight of everyone else. No one's very existence is threatened if he's robbed of his wallet but then gets it back when the pickpocket is caught. Because of this, it would be down-right barbarian to hang a pickpocket. Capital punishment should only be used for extreme cases. If you want to bring back Christendom, don't only bring it back to its former glory. Have it become even greater than before. And the best way to do this is to be a good Christian. Many, many people at the height of Christendom were NOT good Christians. DO NOT REPEAT THEIR MISTAKE!
 
#38
I've been convinced. No hangings for pickpockets, but I'd say 1 to 5 years in prison (which includes labor camps). However, armed robberies I believe, should still be punished with death penalty, as violence in lethal levels is employed in such crime. Personally, I believe these crimes should have death penalty:

Is that good enough?
PAULUS AEMILIUS I, DUX TREBIAE
Paolo Emilio I, Caudillo of Trebia
DEUS, PATRIA, REX
#39
One more thing, however. Sorry if I appear to be a bit nagging, just giving a helping hand with restoring Christendom. If the criminal is truly sorry, and I mean from the depths of his heart sorry, he should only be given one to five years and a spiritual director. The latter he can keep for the rest of his life.
 
#40
But how do you tell if a criminal is "truly sorry, [...] from the depths of his heart sorry"?
Gabriel N. Pelger
Last Head of Executive of the defunct Usian Republic
Goodbye, everyone!


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