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The Kingdom of Elohem
#11
(15 Jun 2015, 20:46:36)King Dieter I. Wrote: Interestingly, the hebrew Eloha and the Allah linguisticly seem to have the same root.

This would make sense, but it is no revelation. Syrian and Aramaic Christians, the like that are being persecuted by Daesh, all refer to God as 'Allah', and Jesus as 'Yeshua' (as Jesus was the hellenism for Joshua, which was presumably pronounced with a soft j in the east).
His Lordship Richard I, by the Grace of God, Lord Spiritual of Mercia, Lord of Clyro, Heir to the Würtige Throne, Lord High Admiral of the Tsardom of Nolland, General of the Nollandish Army, Companion of Honour of the Tsardom of Nolland, Commander of the Order of Colour of McCarthia, Knight of the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand, Member of the Most Honourable Order of the Throne of Sandus, Knight of the Order of Adammia, OGC, CF.
#12
Not getting involved with the religious aspect of this conversation, as I really don't care, but welcome to the micronational forum - I've seen your posts and will check out your nation some more. Best regards.
"Sola Virtus Nobilitat!"
Virtue (Valor) Alone Enobles!

Ser John Marshall, Thegn of Siar Fordell

The Thegn-Hold of Siar Fordell

Wiki Page for Siar Fordell
#13
(16 Jun 2015, 20:58:12)Emperor Markus II Wrote:
(15 Jun 2015, 21:26:09)SoD Woods Wrote: I have a feeling that this will turn into a rather fascinating philosophical conversation.

Do you have any idea who these other gods may be?

I concur, which gods does Elohem recognize as equal with our Lord Christ?

I was hoping you would ask. First I think God is the will of the universe, rather than an individual person. Second, Jesus himself several times said that we're all god's children. Early christianity truely believed in this concept. It was the instrumentalisation of the romean emporer Constantine which turned christianity into a tool of crowd control. For this reason the catholics were chosen, because their hierarchical structure used to fit in.

Even today we say we're all God's children, but we don't mean it anymore.

So, let's get to the controversy of monotheism in the bible.

Genesis, chapter xviii. 1-8:

"And YAHVEH appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, My lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: let now a little water be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: and I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your heart; after that ye shall pass on: forasmuch as ye are come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto the servant; and he hasted to dress it, And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. "

Why is Abraham seeing God, and it is 3 men? Why did they eat, were "in the body"? So was Jesus, even for 40 days after his resurrection.

Later BTW., two of the 3 "men" went to Sodom.

Or this:
"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." (Gen. i. 26.)

Us?

But of course, there is a certain demand for monotheism, in that people may not worship perverted ideals or idols, that are manifestation of greed, anger, bloodlust and so on. Which unfortunately is exactly what happens today. War, torture, greed, it is so common, even "in the name of God".

Quote: SoD Woods Wrote: I have a feeling that this will turn into a rather fascinating philosophical conversation.

Do you have any idea who these other gods may be?
Maybe I wasn't very precise. I think there is one almighty god above all, not an isolated individual, but rather the fabric of life. But there are also Entities with divine qualities. There may be several levels of divineness, Angels, Archangels. Christ is most likely top ranking. There is an assumption by some, that each soul can gather such divineness, or on the other hand become a demon, lurking around on earth, unaware of what happened.


Quote:Posted by MarquisofNewCharter - 15 Jun 2015 21:51:03

You have an interesting life story...

Thank you. That part about the holy relicts was a bit over the top tho, so now I turned it into "legends, told by the elders".

Quote: Posted by ThegnSiarFordell - Yesterday 14:44:48

Not getting involved with the religious aspect of this conversation, as I really don't care, but welcome to the micronational forum - I've seen your posts and will check out your nation some more. Best regards.
Indeed, it's a bit off topic, but probably that's still the best thread within this forum to discuss it. However, thanks for your interest, you're welcome

....
His Royal Majesty, King Dieter I.

Veritas Vincit
#14
Greetings, and welcome to the forums if I haven't saluted yet. Reading your comments, there are some things I don't perceive as correct in your statements.

(18 Jun 2015, 02:28:15)King Dieter I. Wrote: I was hoping you would ask. First I think God is the will of the universe, rather than an individual person.
How could God be the will of the Universe, since he is the Creator of it? God is the Unmoved Mover, the beginning of Everything, and the source of perfectness. He cannot be the will of the Universe, but the Universe is will of God.

Quote:Second, Jesus himself several times said that we're all god's children. Early Christianity truely believed in this concept. It was the instrumentalisation of the romean emporer Constantine which turned christianity into a tool of crowd control. For this reason the catholics were chosen, because their hierarchical structure used to fit in.
Constantine never was the first Pope, and he never tried to use the Church to convince the masses. There is no historical note for that, and if there isn't then how does certain people preach this story? Simple, it was made up.

The first Pope is St. Peter. Jesus Christ himself appoints him the first Pope, as Matthew 16:18 states. The second Pope was St. Linus. And the reason the Papacy is in Rome is because St. Peter preached there.

What Constantine did, it wasn't manipulating Christians. He ended the persecution against Christians. Constantine wasn't the first Pope. He was the Caesar, the State, not the Church. We are still seen as Children of God inside the Catholic Church. It is taught at Mass, in the Catechism, and in the Bible.

Well, I made my part. If you want to try and refute my arguments, go ahead :D
#15
Welcome, Paolo Emilio I.

You certainly have a point there. Then again, Christianity has been a number of persecuted sects until Constantin declared it as the new official religion of the entire romean empire, at which occassion he also had his vision of the Papal seal, the X and P, on eachother.

He published the first Bible, of which no copy does exist anymore.

A lot is known about Constantine, since the romeans kept records of many things, and we may also assume certain things. Of course, from the point of view of a catholic it is hard to see any errors in catholicism, which may also be symptomatic for the competitive treatment of other christian groups, such as the "albigensers" who were persecuted and burnt at stakes.

Religion tho is undoubtly a tool for crowd control, especially we, leaders, Kings and such, must know by now.

Not only the catholic, but basicly all institutionalized religions. For me, spirituality is not equal religion.

...
His Royal Majesty, King Dieter I.

Veritas Vincit
#16
Let me put this straight. Constantine had a vision of the Cross just before the Battle of Saxa Rubra, where he defeated his rival and became unquestioned Roman Emperor, from Britain to Arabia. The Chi-Ro symbol was used by Christians long before Constantine, and it's not surprising that it should be the Papal seal because of that, not because Constantine saw it in a vision. Also, the Edict of Milan proclaimed Christianity legal. It was possibly one of the first instances of religious equality: no one religion was held as superior to another. The Edict of Milan also happened a few years after the Battle of Saxa Rubra.

I don't know about him publishing the first Bible. I do know that what Catholics today accept as the Bible was put together at this time. What's more likely is that Constantine told the bishops to get together and put all the teachings of Christ in one place.

I would not say that religion is a crowd tool. Religion is a set of beliefs which the believer believes will get him to a better place after he dies, and also shows him how to be a good person on Earth. Religion may, however, be manipulated as a crowd tool, but that is not it's sole purpose.
 
#17
The Torah was written in Ancient Israel and the Babylonian exile. The New Testament began to be written just after the death of Jesus. The Epistles of St. Paul were letters written to Christian brothers through the world, and the Bible was put together around this time. It was just in secret. Constantine ended this persecution, making the Bible a "legal" book.

The Papacy began with St. Peter. What prevents a later Pope from making a Council to decide which books fit in the Bible? Constantine didn't write the first Bible. It was the Papacy who took this work. It all took place in a synod in Hippo Regius.

I actually perceive some errors in the Catholic faith. I disagree celibacy for Catholic priests, to put an example. The Church was created by Jesus in person, but it is managed by human beings, so it's normal to perceive some errors.

Regarding crowd tools, I don't think that crowd control should be called the "sole purpose" of religion, Colonel Woods. You are saying that religion was made to control people, among other functions. In my opinion, using religion as a crowd tool is like using a kitchen knife to stab an innocent person. And just because of that, we can't throw away all kitchen knifes right? Religion works in a similar way.
PAULUS AEMILIUS I, DUX TREBIAE
Paolo Emilio I, Caudillo of Trebia
DEUS, PATRIA, REX
#18
(19 Jun 2015, 20:59:18)PavlvsAemilivs Wrote: Regarding crowd tools, I don't think that crowd control should be called the "sole purpose" of religion, Colonel Woods. You are saying that religion was made to control people, among other functions. In my opinion, using religion as a crowd tool is like using a kitchen knife to stab an innocent person. And just because of that, we can't throw away all kitchen knifes right? Religion works in a similar way.

Good point. I wouldn't want to manipulate religion in that way, anyway. And it's knives, not knifes.
 
#19
I don't think that celibacy was a scriptural issue. I think it was a practical issue. When you devote you're entire life to God, it is easier to do so when you aren't being constantly distracted by your family. Not to say that families are necessarily distracting, but rather that without one, a priest can focus more exclusively on God. Also, a parish is a family, so already a parish priest had a family, it was just bigger than most.
 
#20
The synod of Hippo took place in 393 AD.

I was referring to the legendary 50 Bibles of Constantine, from 331 AD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Bibl...onstantine

However, I may be inspired by spiritual things one day, and the next day, after an accident that smashed my vehicle and my leg, I am not and I ask: why?

So even a King of a land, named after the Divine, may sometimes ask:

"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" (Lord why have you left me)

So much about religion.

...
His Royal Majesty, King Dieter I.

Veritas Vincit


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