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Markus II vs. Akihonaomi debates
#21
(7 Jun 2016, 17:54:13)DNSgov Wrote:
(7 Jun 2016, 16:20:02)Austenasia Wrote:
(6 Jun 2016, 21:46:35)DNSgov Wrote: Actually, during the time of the early Caliphate, medieval Europe was the backwater of the world. Classical civilization and its teachings were maintained by Muslim scholars, particularly in Alexandria.

I feel that the Eastern Roman Empire is being ignored here; not all Europe was a backwater. Alexandria would never have been ruled by the Muslims had they not invaded and conquered Egypt first.

Yes, but most of Europe tended to ignore, and even start wars and crusades against the Byzantine Empire. Those crusaders actually burned the city of Constantinople, destroying nearly all of the written works kept in the libraries (many of these books, which are mentioned in other classic works, are completely lost today because of the ignorance of Christian crusaders).

This was well after "the time of the early Caliphate", though. Western Europe's negative attitude towards the Romans only really began in ninth century; prior to that - indeed, precisely during "the time of the early Caliphate" - the Emperor in Constantinople was respected as the nominal overlord of the western kings.
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#22
(8 Jun 2016, 05:00:01)Ned 1st President of Nedland Wrote: Well, let me intervene on a small point.

While I don't really care for Pope Pius, and am in fact an atheist like yourself, but I'll argue for him here nonetheless. The Vatican was surrounded by the capital of fascist Italy during WWII. How was he going to make that work? Would you? While I don't commend the courage of the pope, what he did is still understandable.

Pope Pius actually worked with the German Resistence, and he sheltered them and (I think) funded them. The main problem, is that the Swiss Guard aren't like a fighting force. The Pope doesn't even have that kind of power to order a invasion.
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#23
(8 Jun 2016, 02:56:38)Emperor Markus II Wrote: Is it because he argued in defense of the Western world better than I did?

I would have him remain. He is welcome.

If enslavement has ever been right in your book Markus, then our professional debates together have already failed into an argument. I may be white, but slavery is absolutely, positively, 110% WRONG, and the people still claiming that it provides some good don't deserve to inhabit the world I live in. These debates are over. If Austenasia or another administrator is reading this, I request a deletion of this thread, because I refuse to associate with a proponent of slavery. It is morally, religiously, and politically incorrect, and those who support it belong to the burning dumpster of history.
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Violette "Suzuki" Clingersmith

Co-Founder and Leader of the Drew Star Line Legacy (2005-)
Creator and Caretaker of the Sunþrawegaz Kuningadōmas (2017-)


Uskorian Knight of the Bachelorette, Novian Baroness of the Fennec Fox,
Recipient of the Sovereign Order of the Rose, Recipient of the Order of Uskor, Member of the Austenasian Order.


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#24
(9 Jun 2016, 04:36:21)DNSgov Wrote: If Austenasia or another administrator is reading this, I request a deletion of this thread

In the interest of being fair, I'll wait until those involved clarify whether they meant "slavery = good in any way, shape, or form".
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#25
I'm not going to delete a thread because somebody disagreed with something somebody else said. You've already made it very clear that you in no way wish to be associated with those comments, and I think that anybody reading this will understand that.
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Jonathan I
(Imperator Caesar Jonathan Augustus)
By the Grace of Christ our God faithful Austenasian Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans
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#26
(9 Jun 2016, 04:50:46)Tjorvi Wrote:
(9 Jun 2016, 04:36:21)DNSgov Wrote: If Austenasia or another administrator is reading this, I request a deletion of this thread

In the interest of being fair, I'll wait until those involved clarify whether they meant "slavery = good in any way, shape, or form".

I only said Encomienda actually did good for the natives because they were dressed, fed and housed by the Spanish in change of work. I did not endorse it (and in fact, I would prefer a different system involving paid labor, or penal unpaid labor for criminals).
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#27
Of course, the Natives were not all peaceful. The Aztecs were savages - they killed many of their own people in human sacrifice and followed many strange gods and rituals. Subjugating the Aztec Empire was necessary to bring civilization to the New World - if that meant putting the Aztec people under the rule of Encomienda, so be it.
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#28
(9 Jun 2016, 17:28:44)Emperor Markus II Wrote: Of course, the Natives were not all peaceful. The Aztecs were savages - they killed many of their own people in human sacrifice and followed many strange gods and rituals. Subjugating the Aztec Empire was necessary to bring civilization to the New World - if that meant putting the Aztec people under the rule of Encomienda, so be it.

This will be my last post on this thread, but I have something important to say to Markus and his allies: Until you can see that civilization is not a Christian-European invention or dominion, you will forever see the world from your own backside. And I apparently just can't seem to reason with people who refuse to find their heads. I will continue my work defending minority rights on these forums, but as far as any professional debates go I am done. This world is filled with cat-lady crazy people, but never in my life did I think I'd ever find the Grand High Lama of cat ladies...

Until now, apparently! Markus, you have destroyed every perception I have of insanity and what it means for humanity to stop caring about one another. I don't know where you picked any of this lunacy from, but you need to get away from these influences and enjoy the world. There's only one world, and you only have one life (that you can actually do things in, you can't do diddly-squat in the most versions of the afterlife, if there is indeed such a thing). Why are you wasting it trying to put innocent people down? Hatred only besets hatred, and I think it's high time you just let go of your hatred, Markus. You don't need it, and we don't need to hear it. Live your life, not someone else's. Your 18 now, and let me tell you this: if I made the right choices two or three years ago when I was your age, my best friend would still be alive. But instead I let my jealousy and my hate consume me, and eventually I lost her because of it. Don't end up like me. Let go of your hate, Markus. Be free.

And that is all. I expect you will send me some outrageous retort soon, and I will read it, but I will not respond because I am done with this thread. I just can't reason with people who haven't learned how to reason.

P.S. I actually did my college term paper for Word Civilization I on the Aztecs, and for many years as a kid I wanted to study their culture (In college I instead chose to study two things: the Great War and Oceanic cultures). Their civilization was actually one heck of a lot more advanced then Europe's was at the time. Sorry, I had to put some of my anthropological knowledge in here.

P.S.S. I cursed so much in this post, but it seems some adminstrators have dumbed it down a bit... I don't think it gets the point across so well, but hey, I'm not the F#$%ing boss here!
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Violette "Suzuki" Clingersmith

Co-Founder and Leader of the Drew Star Line Legacy (2005-)
Creator and Caretaker of the Sunþrawegaz Kuningadōmas (2017-)


Uskorian Knight of the Bachelorette, Novian Baroness of the Fennec Fox,
Recipient of the Sovereign Order of the Rose, Recipient of the Order of Uskor, Member of the Austenasian Order.


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#29
Let this not be your last post - perhaps instead you do not understand what I mean. I certainly do not support slavery, so please do not deduce that. However, I do not denounce the Encomienda system, especially when it came to civilizing the Aztecs.

Even though it was uncalled for, your comment, "This world is filled with cat-lady crazy people, but never in my life did I think I'd ever find the Grand High Lama of cat ladies" is quite funny. Were I not so scrupulous about seriousness, I think I would add "Grand High Llama of Cat Ladies" to my forum signature.

I assure you that I do not have hatred against you, dear sir, if that is what you implied. However, I dislike the manner in which you have responded to our discussion. I also dislike many of your viewpoints. However, you, too, are in my eyes created in the image of God, and since we are both created in the image of God, we do owe one another the proper observance of our mutually imbued human dignity.

My life has not been wasted. If you can say that my being a Christian is a waste, then I could just as easily say that you are wasting your own life by hardening your heart against the truth. However, I do not know you and I do not know your life, so I cannot with complete certainty accuse you of being hateful, or wasteful, or self-righteous, or holier-than-thou, &c as you have accused me.

As for your remark, "Be free" - our Blessed Lord has set us free due to his death and resurrection. Specifically he has saved us from the bondage and condemnation of sin and has provided for us the Catholic Church & the kingdom of heaven. As for this kingdom of heaven - the 'afterlife' as you call it - I do not anticipate standing around for all eternity, and I am sure there are plenty of things to do.

My regrets if this post addressed many separate points - it was meant to respond to each of your comments.
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#30
(10 Jun 2016, 03:09:54)Emperor Markus II Wrote: Let this not be your last post - perhaps instead you do not understand what I mean. I certainly do not support slavery, so please do not deduce that. However, I do not denounce the Encomienda system, especially when it came to civilizing the Aztecs.

Even though it was uncalled for, your comment, "This world is filled with cat-lady crazy people, but never in my life did I think I'd ever find the Grand High Lama of cat ladies" is quite funny. Were I not so scrupulous about seriousness, I think I would add "Grand High Llama of Cat Ladies" to my forum signature.

I assure you that I do not have hatred against you, dear sir, if that is what you implied. However, I dislike the manner in which you have responded to our discussion. I also dislike many of your viewpoints. However, you, too, are in my eyes created in the image of God, and since we are both created in the image of God, we do owe one another the proper observance of our mutually imbued human dignity.

My life has not been wasted. If you can say that my being a Christian is a waste, then I could just as easily say that you are wasting your own life by hardening your heart against the truth. However, I do not know you and I do not know your life, so I cannot with complete certainty accuse you of being hateful, or wasteful, or self-righteous, or holier-than-thou, &c as you have accused me.

As for your remark, "Be free" - our Blessed Lord has set us free due to his death and resurrection. Specifically he has saved us from the bondage and condemnation of sin and has provided for us the Catholic Church & the kingdom of heaven. As for this kingdom of heaven - the 'afterlife' as you call it - I do not anticipate standing around for all eternity, and I am sure there are plenty of things to do.

My regrets if this post addressed many separate points - it was meant to respond to each of your comments.

First of all, don't call me sir, I'm a woman.

And secondly, my comment about you being the "Grand High Lama of Cat Ladies" was edited by Tjorvi because it contained a much more vulgar, and personally I think more fitting, language to describe your holiness. That is why I'm even commenting, to clear up what I had no voice in correcting.

Lastly (hopefully), human dignity is not something that one deserves. It is earned through our actions and our respect to our fellow man. That includes Muslims. It includes Gays. It includes commie transgenders like me. You cannot define humanity and civilization as you see fit. Trust me! I'm a bloody Anthropologist. I went to college to learn all about humanity! I cannot, in good conscious, treat a self-righteous, backwards minded, absolute fruitloop (tee-hee) of a kid with any sort of human dignity, when he shows none for the people I work with on a daily basis. You claim you know all about these "other" cultures, these "saracens." I work with them. I study them. It's my job. It's my career, and I can't believe I stooped so low as to argue with someone who is still in bloody high school!!!

I'm done!
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Violette "Suzuki" Clingersmith

Co-Founder and Leader of the Drew Star Line Legacy (2005-)
Creator and Caretaker of the Sunþrawegaz Kuningadōmas (2017-)


Uskorian Knight of the Bachelorette, Novian Baroness of the Fennec Fox,
Recipient of the Sovereign Order of the Rose, Recipient of the Order of Uskor, Member of the Austenasian Order.


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