Poll: Is transgenderism anti-science?
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It is.
17.39%
4 17.39%
It is not.
78.26%
18 78.26%
I am uncertain.
4.35%
1 4.35%
Total 23 vote(s) 100%
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Regarding Transgenderism
#1
Let us, for it seems quite appropriate, discuss the subject of transgenderism, and I expect the main topic of our conversation is, "Why, in the face of the obvious evidence that a person's sex is proven by chromosomes, the transgender movement asserts that a person can, at will, change his or her sex, even though a person cannot change his or her chromosomes."

In addition, the latest fad, I believe it is called "non-gender binary", is the absurd and silly idea that more than two sexes exist. Some such as the Web site Facebook have foolishly deigned to suggest that at least fifty genders exist besides male and female:

[Image: cqe297Y.png]

Why, in addition, has the Western world had such sympathy towards transgenderism in recent times, when transgenderism is obviously an extremely disordered and delusional behavior? According to USA Today, transgender individuals have a "4 in 10" risk of attempting or successfully committing suicide.

In short, the topics to consider are:
  • Whether chromosomes are a social construct, as transgenderists evidently believe;
  • Whether there are in fact fifty or more sexes rather than two;
  • Whether transgenderism is a disordered and self-destructive behavior, or perfectly normal.

Lastly, I suggest once more a review of a rather obvious scientific proof that there are only two sexes, and a person's sex is proven by chromosomes:
[Image: V5Fj2Zt.png?1]

There are, as it is clearly seen above, no verifiable means by which the combination of chromosomes may generate such sexes as "genderfluid", "agender", or "two-spirit".
#2
Oh no...

While I agree that transgenderism is wrong and something humanity should be sorry about, I tolerate it because there's pretty much nothing I can do about it. I've even defended Suzuki's transgenderism from time to time simply because I have to accept it, even though I don't agree with it whatsoever. I also don't agree with gay marriage or anything like that, but again I have to tolerate it, even though I completely 200% disagree with it. I don't actively speak out against it like this however so I prevent hurting others' feelings. There are a few gay users on here, and though I disagree with gay dating and marriage, I don't usually say that as to not hurt others' feelings and such. Maybe you should too.

EDIT: Also, there should be an option up there entitled "Do I care".
DUKE DYLAN I OF THE DUCHY OF HODINY
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#3
I am also opposed to this thing.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
By Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
#4
(26 Jul 2016, 03:03:58)Emperor Markus II Wrote: transgender individuals have a "4 in 10" risk of attempting or successfully committing suicide.

I would argue so many might attempt suicide because of people like you. You invalidate how someone might be born or how they might feel regarding their gender where they may have had no choice in the matter, further plunging them down a hole of depression to where they finally believe the only decision left is suicide, because they feel no one will accept them.

Christians preach everyone is made in "God"s image, yet you lash out at anyone that might go against your idea of a perfect person. People are born white, black, yellow, gay, or transgendered. Accept it like I have to accept that you're a backwards, ignorant, hateful twit.
The Government of the Kingdom of Madrona in exile

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#5
Why be sorry for what others did/do? You're not them. If they're not causing anyone harm then why care? Mind your own business... (This is directed openly, not at anyone)
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#6
In my unwanted opinion, gender has little use outside of linguistics, where it came from. In this sense, gender is a social construction insofar as it places things in certain categories (masculine, feminine, neuter, sentient, animate, inanimate, etc.) in a way that may be arbitrary.

The concept of gender as something beyond linguistics is relatively new. Seeing gender as a set of personal attributes, either masculine, feminine, or attack-helicopter, different combinations of masculine or feminine (or attack-helicopter) qualities leads to problems about which "gender" one really is, or if one is no gender, both (or many), or can shift between genders, etc., leading to the blizzard of special snowflake identities we are all so familiar with. The whole thing is taken to ridiculous postmodern limits.

If we take Encyclopaedia Britannica's stricter definition of gender identity ("an individual’s self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex"), then one can argue that a man can identify as a woman and vice-versa.

The question then becomes, should this self-conception be respected by society, or should it be seen as a disorder? This is a really tricky subject, because other anomalous conditions, such as deafness or autism, also have proponents who believe these conditions are normal or even good, and should not be prevented. Outside of religious arguments, this seems to be mostly a dead end.

As a social conservative, though, I believe biological sex, based on chromosomes, should be central to male/female legal concepts.
#7
While I might disagree with your last point Michael, I can say that your argument on the whole was interesting, and I especially appreciate the fact that you presented your case in a non-confrontational or invalidating manner. Kudos to you, Sir/Madam/Apache attack helicopter.
The Government of the Kingdom of Madrona in exile

o Nationalist o Activist o Monarchist o Royalist o Separatist o Humanist o Philanthropist o Realist o Research Scientist o Imperialist o Patriot o Progressive o
#8
Oh no, it's the Markus, he's released his insanity again.

I must pray in my CCC now, my pretty little allies. I think that, because of Markus, proverbs on the Cancer of the Catholic Church will be useful.
Sincerely,
His Excellency,
Ned Greiner
Genghis Khan of Nedland
Duke of Alkmaar (Mahuset)
President of Lundenland (Mahuset)
President of Zelenarus (Paravia)



Richard Cunninghytholoday Wrote:Now, when I say 'oh my god nobody cares,' please don't take offence; but oh my god, nobody cares.
Lucas Campos Wrote:Oh god, so high, 420% high
#9
Well, Markus is at it again...


Courtesy from: Cardinal Anthony Bergolio, with the message, "To Markus with my regards."
Artemis [Berry] Langford

“An unexamined faith is not worth having, for fundamentalism and uncritical certitude entail the rejection of one of the great human gifts: that of free will, of the liberty to make up our own minds based on evidence and tradition and reason.
-John Meacham 
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." 
-Martin Luther King, Jr.  

 *Activist* *Tactician* *Politician* *Progressive* *Libertarian Socialist* *Proud Episcopalian!* 

#10
(26 Jul 2016, 03:03:58)Emperor Markus II Wrote:
  • Whether chromosomes are a social construct, as transgenderists evidently believe;
  • Whether there are in fact fifty or more sexes rather than two;
  • Whether transgenderism is a disordered and self-destructive behavior, or perfectly normal.
  • No one believes chromosomes are a social construct. What is argued is that the idea of gender is a social construct.
  • There are indeed two sexes, and there's also intersex people, who are an undeniable biological reality (there are pictures on Google Images. You can look it up). What is sometimes argued is that there are more than one genders, which, as stated above, are a social construct not necessarily associated to the biological sex. It is also sometimes argued that since gender is a social construct not necessarily tied to biological sex, then there can certainly be more than two genders. I will explain further below.
  • Why shouldn't transgender people be accepted into society? The high suicide rate in the trans* community can be directly traced to the ostracization suffered by trans* individuals due to rejection and ignorance. I fail to see how trans* people can be harmful to society in any way.
Important concepts to know:
  • Sex: Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.
    Gender: The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
But what about the thousand genders? What about the people who say they identify as a Walgreens giftcard?

I will address the terms Markus mentioned on Facebook, for the sake of simplicity. But first of all, we need to clear up some basics. As we have stated before, it is commonly accepted (or at least partially accepted by prestigious institutions such as the Oxford dictionary, which produced the definitions on sex and gender given above) that sex and gender are separate things not necessarily tied to each other.

If we part from that point, we can now understand how a biologically female person (born with a vagina) can identify with the male gender, making said person a transgender man. She no longer identifies with the female gender, which is commonly associated with the female sex (which she was born with). This person's chromosomes remain the same than when s/he was born, but s/he no longer identifies with the social attitudes generally applied to the female gender. S/he is a he. He is a man, because she identifies as such. Maybe he was not born with a penis and testicles, and his chromosomes are not the same as the other men who were born with these biological characteristics, but does that really matter? Do we really care about people's genitals so much?

Now on to the fifty thousand genders. We have seen how "gender" can easily be changed in order to make people more comfortable with themselves. The person from the example given earlier feels better now that he identifies with the gender he feels fits him better. But what if that person did not feel comfortable identifying as with either the male or female genders?

This is when we introduce the gender spectrum.


Seen here is the gender spectrum (in the middle, under the biological sex spectrum and above the gender expression spectrum). The terms gender fluid refers to the "third gender" in the middle of the spectrum. These can be seen as superpositions of the male and female gender in any proportion of either states (if you've ever studied quantum physics, you'll understand what I'm talking about).

The terms gender variant and gender nonconforming both refer to a behavior or gender expression by an individual that does not match the gender norms of the gender they are perceived to be by society. In this sense, these terms are very closely related to the term genderqueer, which is pretty much an umbrella term for any gender identity outside the gender binary (the male-female binary seen as the extremes of the spectrum).

The term bigender denotes a person's identifying with both male and female genders. Agender, on the other hand, refers to a person who does not identify with any gender at all, and considers themselves to be outside the spectrum.

A gender questioning person is someone who knows they don't identify with the gender they have at the moment, but is unsure how they truly identify. The period for the transgender man of the earlier example before he knew identified with the male gender could be considered a period of in which the person was gender questioning.

Lastly, the term cisgender simply refers to people who identify with the one of the two genders of the gender binary (male and female) commonly associated with their biological sex. That is, biological women who identify with the female gender and biological men who identify with the male gender. Since trans* people are a minority in our society, most people are cisgender. This term exists merely to denote the difference between trans* people and pretty much everyone else.

Helpful infographic:


All in all, I can see how all of this can be very confusing to most people who have not studied modern Western gender theory (pretty much everyone everywhere). But in regards to transgender people and their rights, it's not so much a matter of understanding them rather than a matter of letting them be, because transgender people harm no one by being who they are. Transgender people harm themselves so much and suffer from depression so often because they are constantly belittled by society. They are constantly told their perceptions of themselves are flawed and incompatible with reality. From their families in their homes, to their priests in their churches, their bosses at work and all their peers in society they are scrutinized by people who think they know transgender people better than transgender people know themselves. Anyone would break under these circumstances.

You may have your own opinions on transgender people and what they mean to society as a collective group, and that is your right. But please do not attempt to limit the rights of a whole community just because you do not understand their situation. The idea of "transgenderism" is new to our society and all of these complicated terms and concepts certainly are too. But people feeling uncomfortable with the ideas surrounding their biological sex are nothing new. The only thing that's changed is that now people can choose what they think is best for them, and if you ask me that's a great thing. It's not even a political statement. I don't want to think empathy is an ideology.

Also, not all transgender are radical keyboard militants or Scandinavian hacktivists who rain fire on the internet to anyone who disagrees with their view of the world. Generalizations are good for a laugh, but social affairs in our modern world are no laughing matter.

tl;dr do not inflict pain upon those who do not inflict pain on others, and if a guy wants to be a girl or a girl wants to be a guy let them be and respect them because it doesn't cost you a damn thing.
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