Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Irish abortion referendum, let's have a debate!
#11
Of course, this referendum should not succeed. Abortion is murder, all who practice it will go to hell unless they repent.

Catholics who perform or otherwise participate in abortions are automatically excommunicated, too.
Reply
#12
(20 May 2018, 23:35:10)Tjorvi Wrote: This is largely being debated by men and boys largely because of a dominance of guys here and such a minority of women. If women want to get involved in the discussion then I welcome it, and I agree that they should be involved considering it is their bodies

That's also presupposing that the fetus isn't considered a "body". In my opinion the abortion debate isn't so much about whether or not women should have the right of bodily autonomy (because I think only actual misogynists would argue against that), but whether or not the fetus itself should be considered a person (which would, under most ethical systems, override that right). If the fetus is a person, then there's no reason males shouldn't have a voice in the debate as well, but if the argument is made that men can't contribute to the discussion because "abortion doesn't affect men or boys" then that's clearly said from a position where the debate has already been decided.

Man: "To abort that male fetus is murder."
Woman: "You can't contribute to that debate because abortion doesn't affect males."

See my point? If the issue is being genuinely, openly debated, then the question of whether it affects females alone or both males and females is still undecided (it does tend to be girls who are aborted more, e.g. in countries such as China, but there are still of course boys being aborted as well).
His Imperial Majesty
Jonathan I
(Imperator Caesar Jonathan Augustus)
By the Grace of Christ our God faithful Austenasian Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans
[Image: 8hcAM4h.png]
Reply
#13
Being pregnant is risky even for a healthy person who prepared for it. Unwant pregnant are more dangerous as that person doesn't prepare for it physically and mentally. Abort unwant one VS Abort for rape victim VS abort for saving life should have a different standard which is out of my field here so I can't give a detailed one. I don't call it a murder if that fetus doesn't have developed nervous system, it's a chunk of tissue with no brain. I agreed that sometimes necessary evil is necessary for saving life of living people than saving life of unborn one. Banning legal abortion also lead to lot of failed illegal abortion that send many people to hospital or even cause loss of life. Wasting taxpayer money on something that's preventable by legalized abortion.

TL;DR Their body, their decision. Not yours. You also didn't pay for their medical bill and cost of having children for those who can't abort because a nonsense law that doesn't based on problem-solution mindsets, how could you decide for them without asking or seeing what exactly happened while taking zero responsibility?
--------------------------------
Ad astra per aspera, through hardships to the stars

STL Ernst / ASRN Rocket builder

https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Aphelia_S...rch_Nation
Reply
#14
(22 May 2018, 17:54:06)ApheliaSRN Wrote: Being pregnant is risky even for a healthy person who prepared for it. Unwant pregnant are more dangerous as that person doesn't prepare for it physically and mentally. Abort unwant one VS Abort for rape victim VS abort for saving life should have a different standard which is out of my field here so I can't give a detailed one. I don't call it a murder if that fetus doesn't have developed nervous system, it's a chunk of tissue with no brain. I agreed that sometimes necessary evil is necessary for saving life of living people than saving life of unborn one. Banning legal abortion also lead to lot of failed illegal abortion that send many people to hospital or even cause loss of life. Wasting taxpayer money on something that's preventable by legalized abortion.

TL;DR Their body, their decision. Not yours. You also didn't pay for their medical bill and cost of having children for those who can't abort because a nonsense law that doesn't based on problem-solution mindsets, how could you decide for them without asking or seeing what exactly happened while taking zero responsibility?

So a fetus isn't a human being?
Reply
#15
(22 May 2018, 23:10:41)Markus Pius Wrote:
(22 May 2018, 17:54:06)ApheliaSRN Wrote: Being pregnant is risky even for a healthy person who prepared for it. Unwant pregnant are more dangerous as that person doesn't prepare for it physically and mentally. Abort unwant one VS Abort for rape victim VS abort for saving life should have a different standard which is out of my field here so I can't give a detailed one. I don't call it a murder if that fetus doesn't have developed nervous system, it's a chunk of tissue with no brain. I agreed that sometimes necessary evil is necessary for saving life of living people than saving life of unborn one. Banning legal abortion also lead to lot of failed illegal abortion that send many people to hospital or even cause loss of life. Wasting taxpayer money on something that's preventable by legalized abortion.

TL;DR Their body, their decision. Not yours. You also didn't pay for their medical bill and cost of having children for those who can't abort because a nonsense law that doesn't based on problem-solution mindsets, how could you decide for them without asking or seeing what exactly happened while taking zero responsibility?

So a fetus isn't a human being?

Not until brain developed (around 12-15 week or so, my biology is q bit rusty). By laws of my macro, personality begins with the full completion of birth, not until birth and breath. I'd stick with first one.

Abortion should have different standard for each case. Unwanted one have shortest fetus age range because they supposed to know they don't want one. Rape victim should have 100% access to abortion at no limit fetus age (judging from victim blame in my country that make victim always fear to ask for any help.)
--------------------------------
Ad astra per aspera, through hardships to the stars

STL Ernst / ASRN Rocket builder

https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Aphelia_S...rch_Nation
Reply
#16
(22 May 2018, 09:27:38)Austenasia Wrote:
(20 May 2018, 23:35:10)Tjorvi Wrote: This is largely being debated by men and boys largely because of a dominance of guys here and such a minority of women. If women want to get involved in the discussion then I welcome it, and I agree that they should be involved considering it is their bodies

That's also presupposing that the fetus isn't considered a "body". In my opinion the abortion debate isn't so much about whether or not women should have the right of bodily autonomy (because I think only actual misogynists would argue against that), but whether or not the fetus itself should be considered a person (which would, under most ethical systems, override that right). If the fetus is a person, then there's no reason males shouldn't have a voice in the debate as well, but if the argument is made that men can't contribute to the discussion because "abortion doesn't affect men or boys" then that's clearly said from a position where the debate has already been decided.

Man: "To abort that male fetus is murder."
Woman: "You can't contribute to that debate because abortion doesn't affect males."

See my point? If the issue is being genuinely, openly debated, then the question of whether it affects females alone or both males and females is still undecided (it does tend to be girls who are aborted more, e.g. in countries such as China, but there are still of course boys being aborted as well).

China abortion is financial and belief issue, plus one child laws make it worsen. Even if they ban legal abortion, black market still available choice.
--------------------------------
Ad astra per aspera, through hardships to the stars

STL Ernst / ASRN Rocket builder

https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Aphelia_S...rch_Nation
Reply
#17
I believe the one child law has been repealed, not that it takes away from your point.
[Image: buy_email_lists_21819162.jpg]
In the words of  Bill Clinton
I did was not affiliated or part take in the actions of the hackers, Dreamlight Hackerz
Reply
#18
(23 May 2018, 04:45:57)ApheliaSRN Wrote: Rape victim should have 100% access to abortion at no limit fetus age (judging from victim blame in my country that make victim always fear to ask for any help.)

And why can't the mother just have the baby and put it up for adoption?

Aborting the child is punishing the child for his father's crime of rape. The person who should be punished is the father, not the child.
Reply
#19
(23 May 2018, 04:45:57)ApheliaSRN Wrote: Not until brain developed (around 12-15 week or so, my biology is q bit rusty). By laws of my macro, personality begins with the full completion of birth, not until birth and breath. I'd stick with first one.

Suppose a mother doesn't want to keep her baby after her baby is born - suppose she finds the baby has Down syndrome or something like that. What's so bad about killing the baby after the baby is born?

Besides, the brain doesn't "fully" develop until you are in your 20s, right? That's what they say.
Reply
#20
The idea of simply putting a child up for adoption doesn't really work. There are already too many children waiting for to be adopted but they never are, many "age out" where they reach adulthood waiting to be adopted.
"Progress doesn't wait for conservatives."
~ King Shamus I, Kingdom of Madrona, 2016

His Majesty King Shamus the First of the Provisional Government of the Kingdom of Madrona

Member of the Madrona Sovereignty Movement in Canada

o Nationalist o Activist o Monarchist o Separatist o Humanist o Philanthropist o Realist o Research Scientist o Imperialist o Patriot o Progressive o
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)