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Organisation for "Bedroom Republics"
#31
(27 Nov 2018, 04:04:26)Grand Federation Wrote:
(26 Nov 2018, 01:34:04)ChadMacronationalist Wrote:
(25 Nov 2018, 21:23:41)Tjorvi Wrote: We stopped viewing ourselves as a micronation a few years ago, however when you're looking at Western Canada (assuming you include the three territories), you're looking at approximately two-thirds of Canada. However, this is still viable, considering the sheer amount of support for secession, coupled with the support for our specific movement, and very particular international laws that would enable us to have a population giving us a majority vote

Ahh, the Western Independence Movement. Well, perhaps in the 1970s and 80s you might have had a point, but Western Secessionism in the modern political atmosphere is quite laughable.

The Western Block Party, which was the most recent registered political party advocating independence ran dozens of candidates, but none even gained a single percentage of the vote in their races and the party dissolved in 2014. Indeed Pro-American Unionism has had greater success in Western Canada than independence attempts, and that is saying a lot given that it only ever had a handful of elected politicians supporting the concept, and none of them were elected on that platform but instead were defectees from the Conservative Party.

No, there is little indication at all that a pro-separatist sentiment is rising in Western Canada. Both the NDP and Tories have won a bulk of Western Canadian seats with Vancouver going to the Libs, and none of the three major Canadian parties have endorsed and in fact have opposed the idea of separtism with regards to Quebec, a region far more likely to attain independence.

But if you believe it is so likely, perhaps you would be so kind as to provide evidence. And I do not mean anecdote or claims that Canada is politically divided but actual evidence that there is a rising interest in 'Madronian Nationalism' or at the very least a surge in support for generic Western Separatism that is more notable than the rise in interest seen in prior failed secessionist bids.
...do you happen to have a map of Madrona? Or any actual proof that you have support in the thousands? I'm sorrry my good man, but from what I'm seeing, you're not really that willing to divulge information.

What does Madrona have that's better than what Canada can currently provide?

From what I googled, you said on your wiki that "the eventual goal is on July 7th, 2018 Canada will formally acknowledge both Madronan independence and its sovereignty. The last ties connecting Madrona to Canada will be dissolved with signing of the Madrona Act 2018."

Obviously, that hasn't happened. Western Canada seems very stable and pro-Canada as of now.

(27 Nov 2018, 04:26:27)Tjorvi Wrote:
(27 Nov 2018, 04:04:26)Grand Federation Wrote: ...do you happen to have a map of Madrona? Or any actual proof that you have support in the thousands? I'm sorry my good man, but from what I'm seeing, you're not really that willing to divulge information.

Map. As for willingness to divulge information, between accusations of sedition and seditious libel (which as an indictable offense in Canada alone can result in upwards of fourteen years imprisonment each) and Bill C-51, which would enable the Government of Canada to declare any act an act of terrorism without actually defining it, and holding that person potentially indefinitely, neither myself nor my colleagues are in any particular hurry to cause problems just to satisfy people over an internet forum We're. Not. Ready. Yet. If that isn't good enough for you, then I suppose our disinterest in being arrested and formally charged outweigh your curiosity.

Quote:What does Madrona have that's better than what Canada can currently provide?

Right now, we have something better than Canada in-so-far as a federal political party in Canada has something better than the reigning political party but doesn't specifically have it at that moment in time.

Quote:From what I googled, you said on your wiki that "the eventual goal is on July 7th, 2018 Canada will formally acknowledge both Madronan independence and its sovereignty. The last ties connecting Madrona to Canada will be dissolved with signing of the Madrona Act 2018."

Yes, and I have also mentioned several times on this forum that the wiki is outdated and horribly written. Still, I suppose it's nice to know though that people are at least reading it.

Quote:Obviously, that hasn't happened. Western Canada seems very stable and pro-Canada as of now.

I honestly laughed out loud when this happened today, but Premier Rachel Notley of Alberta was said to have brought up the act of separating from Canada based on a number of grievances. British Columbia has the Cascadia independence movement, Saskatchewan has seen their agricultural and (limited) oil industries getting shafted, the territories have had to constantly import basic groceries, raising the prices far in excess than if they were able to grow much of their own. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau kept Canadian oil in NAFTA, which means Canada has been selling oil far below market value, the steel and aluminum tariffs are still on, which is a huge financial drain. Western Canada sends approximately $60 billion per year through a list of programs (the biggest of which is the equalization payments at $18 billion).
I can assure you, from talking to those that I know from Alberta and Saskatchewan, that they'd sooner join the US than be their own nations. Also, what do you mean by a "federal ruling party?" Does Canada not have any federal parties?
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#32
(27 Nov 2018, 04:32:17)Grand Federation Wrote: Also, what do you mean by a "federal ruling party?" Does Canada not have any federal parties?

I of course mean the political party that formed Federal Government. At this moment that would be the Federal Liberal Party of Canada.
"Progress doesn't wait for conservatives."
~ King Shamus I, Kingdom of Madrona, 2016

His Majesty King Shamus the First of the Provisional Government of the Kingdom of Madrona

Member of the Madrona Sovereignty Movement in Canada

o Nationalist o Activist o Monarchist o Separatist o Humanist o Philanthropist o Realist o Research Scientist o Imperialist o Patriot o Progressive o
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#33
(27 Nov 2018, 04:26:27)Tjorvi Wrote:
(27 Nov 2018, 04:04:26)Grand Federation Wrote: ...do you happen to have a map of Madrona? Or any actual proof that you have support in the thousands? I'm sorry my good man, but from what I'm seeing, you're not really that willing to divulge information.

Map. As for willingness to divulge information, between accusations of sedition and seditious libel (which as an indictable offense in Canada alone can result in upwards of fourteen years imprisonment each) and Bill C-51, which would enable the Government of Canada to declare any act an act of terrorism without actually defining it, and holding that person potentially indefinitely, neither myself nor my colleagues are in any particular hurry to cause problems just to satisfy people over an internet forum We're. Not. Ready. Yet. If that isn't good enough for you, then I suppose our disinterest in being arrested and formally charged outweigh your curiosity.

Quote:What does Madrona have that's better than what Canada can currently provide?

Right now, we have something better than Canada in-so-far as a federal political party in Canada has something better than the reigning political party but doesn't specifically have it at that moment in time.

Quote:From what I googled, you said on your wiki that "the eventual goal is on July 7th, 2018 Canada will formally acknowledge both Madronan independence and its sovereignty. The last ties connecting Madrona to Canada will be dissolved with signing of the Madrona Act 2018."

Yes, and I have also mentioned several times on this forum that the wiki is outdated and horribly written. Still, I suppose it's nice to know though that people are at least reading it.

Quote:Obviously, that hasn't happened. Western Canada seems very stable and pro-Canada as of now.

I honestly laughed out loud when this happened today, but Premier Rachel Notley of Alberta was said to have brought up the act of separating from Canada based on a number of grievances. British Columbia has the Cascadia independence movement, Saskatchewan has seen their agricultural and (limited) oil industries getting shafted, the territories have had to constantly import basic groceries, raising the prices far in excess than if they were able to grow much of their own. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau kept Canadian oil in NAFTA, which means Canada has been selling oil far below market value, the steel and aluminum tariffs are still on, which is a huge financial drain. Western Canada sends approximately $60 billion per year through a list of programs (the biggest of which is the equalization payments at $18 billion).

1. Okay, so basically "THEY!!1!1" are going to come get you if you reveal any proof. You also mock him for being on a internet forum when you've spent years on this forum and you are a admin to boot.

2. "We're better because we're better" circular logic, try again.

3. Is that why you link to it on the bottom part of your account and only cite vague posts whenever you're ciritized on it?

4. Haha. No, actually, she didn't. Note how Cascadia and Madrona are two different things. Also, *that's why those territories are in Canada*. So they can export food. It's not the rest of the countries fault that they don't really produce much. Also, Alberta and British Columbia have some of the highest GDPs in Canada, you know, as part of Confederation, so I don't know what you're spouting. And oil is getting shafted because it's not renewable. It's not long-term.
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#34
(27 Nov 2018, 04:32:17)Grand Federation Wrote:
(27 Nov 2018, 04:04:26)Grand Federation Wrote:
(26 Nov 2018, 01:34:04)ChadMacronationalist Wrote:
(25 Nov 2018, 21:23:41)Tjorvi Wrote: We stopped viewing ourselves as a micronation a few years ago, however when you're looking at Western Canada (assuming you include the three territories), you're looking at approximately two-thirds of Canada. However, this is still viable, considering the sheer amount of support for secession, coupled with the support for our specific movement, and very particular international laws that would enable us to have a population giving us a majority vote

Ahh, the Western Independence Movement. Well, perhaps in the 1970s and 80s you might have had a point, but Western Secessionism in the modern political atmosphere is quite laughable.

The Western Block Party, which was the most recent registered political party advocating independence ran dozens of candidates, but none even gained a single percentage of the vote in their races and the party dissolved in 2014. Indeed Pro-American Unionism has had greater success in Western Canada than independence attempts, and that is saying a lot given that it only ever had a handful of elected politicians supporting the concept, and none of them were elected on that platform but instead were defectees from the Conservative Party.

No, there is little indication at all that a pro-separatist sentiment is rising in Western Canada. Both the NDP and Tories have won a bulk of Western Canadian seats with Vancouver going to the Libs, and none of the three major Canadian parties have endorsed and in fact have opposed the idea of separtism with regards to Quebec, a region far more likely to attain independence.

But if you believe it is so likely, perhaps you would be so kind as to provide evidence. And I do not mean anecdote or claims that Canada is politically divided but actual evidence that there is a rising interest in 'Madronian Nationalism' or at the very least a surge in support for generic Western Separatism that is more notable than the rise in interest seen in prior failed secessionist bids.
...do you happen to have a map of Madrona? Or any actual proof that you have support in the thousands? I'm sorrry my good man, but from what I'm seeing, you're not really that willing to divulge information.

What does Madrona have that's better than what Canada can currently provide?

From what I googled, you said on your wiki that "the eventual goal is on July 7th, 2018 Canada will formally acknowledge both Madronan independence and its sovereignty. The last ties connecting Madrona to Canada will be dissolved with signing of the Madrona Act 2018."

Obviously, that hasn't happened. Western Canada seems very stable and pro-Canada as of now.

(27 Nov 2018, 04:26:27)Tjorvi Wrote:
(27 Nov 2018, 04:04:26)Grand Federation Wrote: ...do you happen to have a map of Madrona? Or any actual proof that you have support in the thousands? I'm sorry my good man, but from what I'm seeing, you're not really that willing to divulge information.

Map. As for willingness to divulge information, between accusations of sedition and seditious libel (which as an indictable offense in Canada alone can result in upwards of fourteen years imprisonment each) and Bill C-51, which would enable the Government of Canada to declare any act an act of terrorism without actually defining it, and holding that person potentially indefinitely, neither myself nor my colleagues are in any particular hurry to cause problems just to satisfy people over an internet forum We're. Not. Ready. Yet. If that isn't good enough for you, then I suppose our disinterest in being arrested and formally charged outweigh your curiosity.

Quote:What does Madrona have that's better than what Canada can currently provide?

Right now, we have something better than Canada in-so-far as a federal political party in Canada has something better than the reigning political party but doesn't specifically have it at that moment in time.

Quote:From what I googled, you said on your wiki that "the eventual goal is on July 7th, 2018 Canada will formally acknowledge both Madronan independence and its sovereignty. The last ties connecting Madrona to Canada will be dissolved with signing of the Madrona Act 2018."

Yes, and I have also mentioned several times on this forum that the wiki is outdated and horribly written. Still, I suppose it's nice to know though that people are at least reading it.

Quote:Obviously, that hasn't happened. Western Canada seems very stable and pro-Canada as of now.

I honestly laughed out loud when this happened today, but Premier Rachel Notley of Alberta was said to have brought up the act of separating from Canada based on a number of grievances. British Columbia has the Cascadia independence movement, Saskatchewan has seen their agricultural and (limited) oil industries getting shafted, the territories have had to constantly import basic groceries, raising the prices far in excess than if they were able to grow much of their own. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau kept Canadian oil in NAFTA, which means Canada has been selling oil far below market value, the steel and aluminum tariffs are still on, which is a huge financial drain. Western Canada sends approximately $60 billion per year through a list of programs (the biggest of which is the equalization payments at $18 billion).
I can assure you, from talking to those that I know from Alberta and Saskatchewan, that they'd sooner join the US than be their own nations. Also, what do you mean by a "federal ruling party?" Does Canada not have any federal parties?

And you're having talks with a multitude of corporations at the same time? I thought Micronations were supposed to be this eccentric but fun thing that some people do as a hobby. Granted they can take it as far as they want to like the Molossia dude and all that stuff with the Nostalgia Critic, but I doubt you really have thousands of people willing to live in an unproven Kingdom ruled by someone they don't really know that well. As Monarchist as I am, I highly doubt people would abandon Canada and all that for your other choice.

Hmm. Valóban elgondolkodtató.
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#35
"I could also argue that Quebec's attempts at secession are 'quite laughable' when you consider they want everything without paying for anything. "

And I would agree. Yet the Quebeckers dont have to hide all the details and avoid the media. Instead theyve had two referendums, one of them came close. You consider them laughable yet they have far more going for them due to cultural and linguistic differences, governmental differences, and existing political channels for separatist ideas.

" As for whether there is any indication at all for a pro-separatist sentiment rising in Western Canada, all I can tell you is everyone we've spoke with has either supported separation a lot, or a little, but they do still support the idea."

Right, this is why I said to avoid anecdotal evidence. Everyone you've spoken to is probably not representative of the general populace of Western Canada. And who is this we? Are you saying you have a group of Madronan independence advocates?


"The 'Madronan Nationalism' only ranks a few thousand strong spread out across Western Canada, however the only way that I am aware of that I might prove this would be to divulge information on our server, and with the reaction towards various companies that lose this information onto the internet, I see no incentive to deliberately leak private data onto the internet."

If you have thousands of Madronans among your ranks surely there would be some physical presence. But there isnt... curious indeed. And not once did anyone ask for 'private data' whatever the heck you mean by that, but your response here comes off as LARPing.


"As for willingness to divulge information, between accusations of sedition and seditious libel (which as an indictable offense in Canada alone can result in upwards of fourteen years imprisonment each) and Bill C-51, which would enable the Government of Canada to declare any act an act of terrorism without actually defining it, and holding that person potentially indefinitely, neither myself nor my colleagues are in any particular hurry to cause problems just to satisfy people over an internet forum We're. Not. Ready. Yet. If that isn't good enough for you, then I suppose our disinterest in being arrested and formally charged outweigh your curiosity."

Well, seeing as you have thousands of Nationalists perhaps there is a gathering, rally or even an online forum dedicated to your movement? Surely if you have so many supporters they wouldnt all be in hiding. And again with the 'muh private data', you sound like a LARPer when you say you cant prove anything without exposing private information. It reminds me of the Black Nazi Communitarian guy who said he had clients and people under his command.



"Right now, we have something better than Canada in-so-far as a federal political party in Canada has something better than the reigning political party but doesn't specifically have it at that moment in time."

That was a long way to say nothing at all. At least youve gotten that part of politics down. Literally there is nothing of substance in saying 'we dont have anything cause we arent in power'. What is your platform beyond separation? Why is separation better than voting out the current government?


"Yes, and I have also mentioned several times on this forum that the wiki is outdated and horribly written. Still, I suppose it's nice to know though that people are at least reading it."

If you are planning on rallying a separatist movement you may want to figure out how to operate a Wiki page.



"I honestly laughed out loud when this happened today, but Premier Rachel Notley of Alberta was said to have brought up the act of separating from Canada based on a number of grievances. British Columbia has the Cascadia independence movement, Saskatchewan has seen their agricultural and (limited) oil industries getting shafted, the territories have had to constantly import basic groceries, raising the prices far in excess than if they were able to grow much of their own. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau kept Canadian oil in NAFTA, which means Canada has been selling oil far below market value, the steel and aluminum tariffs are still on, which is a huge financial drain. Western Canada sends approximately $60 billion per year through a list of programs (the biggest of which is the equalization payments at $18 billion)."

And why would the average Canadian abandon his identity and nation to form a new 'Madronan' republic instead of just voting for Tories and NDP?


----

To conclude: Your meme name which has never been a historic Canadian name except for a relatively new Beach Resort on Vancouver Island and will resonate with no one. Your platform is vague enough to sound like it entails anything, but beyond separation there is zero substance. Your constant mentioning of private information sounds like some kiddo playing classified badboy on his laptop to get cool boy points. All in all I give Madrona a 3/10, provide any actual evidence or try again. This is a pipe dream.
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#36
(27 Nov 2018, 04:40:59)Brendan O Wrote: 1. Okay, so basically "THEY!!1!1" are going to come get you if you reveal any proof. You also mock him for being on a internet forum when you've spent years on this forum and you are a admin to boot.

In this case, "they" are the Government of Canada and the RCMP, just like I have been saying this entire time, but you go right ahead and start talking like that. Between you and I, it would seem I'm the only one that treats a threat to things like democracy and freedom of speech seriously.

I don't mock anyone for being on this forum? I mock the idea of expecting information that someone in his position wouldn't be granted if he were to demand it from a whole host of corporations, or even the current Government of Canada. You want to intentionally treat me differently? That's called discrimination. Begone with you.

Quote:2. "We're better because we're better" circular logic, try again.

You lash out at me by accusing me of mockery and yet you post drivel like that. For the record, what I said is exactly what the Liberals, Conservatives, and the NDP say every time a federal election comes around. You might be aware of this if you actually paid attention.


Quote:3. Is that why you link to it on the bottom part of your account and only cite vague posts whenever you're ciritized on it?

Are you asking why I have something linked in my signature, or why I haven't had time to update an online encyclopedia article, despite the fact that this forum isn't my whole life?

Quote:4. Haha. No, actually, she didn't. Note how Cascadia and Madrona are two different things. Also, *that's why those territories are in Canada*. So they can export food. It's not the rest of the countries fault that they don't really produce much. Also, Alberta and British Columbia have some of the highest GDPs in Canada, you know, as part of Confederation, so I don't know what you're spouting. And oil is getting shafted because it's not renewable. It's not long-term.

What can I say, it was on the news only a few hours ago, they brought up various experts and a few other journalists and they discussed it. I lose nothing by not caring whether you believe me or not. They specifically talked about it on CTV's "Power Play" with Don Martin I believe his name was.

I have also never said that the Cascadia and Madrona movements identical, I merely said the Cascadia movement exists. It's also nice to know that you willingly dismiss a provinces struggles just because it doesn't back up the atmosphere you're going for. And for the record, having a high provincial GDP doesn't mean everyone would be horrified at the idea of separation, just look at Alaska, California, Texas, or how many states that sent in petitions to secede from the US roughly fifteen years ago?

I would agree that oil is not renewable, in fact it's a finite resource, yet our Prime Minister forcibly bought the aged pipeline with the pension funds so he could export more oil, to markets that are getting away from using oil. Add in the costly oil spills, Paris Accord, blah blah blah. So our Prime Minister - the one that said he's a defender of the environment - forcibly purchased a pipeline so he could export more oil, conducted an incomplete consultation with those that would be directly affected by building the pipeline expansion, and even paid money to a group of people to protest the pipeline.

Quote:And I would agree. Yet the Quebeckers dont have to hide all the details and avoid the media. Instead theyve had two referendums, one of them came close. You consider them laughable yet they have far more going for them due to cultural and linguistic differences, governmental differences, and existing political channels for separatist ideas.

So when Quebec moved for the referendum, how much time do you suppose they had between deciding to go for it, and actually having it? Must have been at least fifteen minutes, but surely more?

For the record, we have thirty-six reasons for secession.

Quote:Right, this is why I said to avoid anecdotal evidence. Everyone you've spoken to is probably not representative of the general populace of Western Canada. And who is this we? Are you saying you have a group of Madronan independence advocates?

Maybe I should give you their full names, phone numbers, social insurance numbers, physical and email addresses. Maybe that would make you happy and stop this tantrum.

Quote:If you have thousands of Madronans among your ranks surely there would be some physical presence. But there isnt... curious indeed. And not once did anyone ask for 'private data' whatever the heck you mean by that, but your response here comes off as LARPing.

A physical presence? We don't have "chapters," we don't meet at an iHop every Thursday, we work through emails, phone calls and server collaboration, we don't have an immense amount of financing where we can just buy or even rent huge real estate if we don't need to. Physical presence?

Quote:Well, seeing as you have thousands of Nationalists perhaps there is a gathering, rally or even an online forum dedicated to your movement? Surely if you have so many supporters they wouldnt all be in hiding. And again with the 'muh private data', you sound like a LARPer when you say you cant prove anything without exposing private information. It reminds me of the Black Nazi Communitarian guy who said he had clients and people under his command.

Not going to lie, near the beginning I thought about a forum, but I felt it wouldn't have a "professional" feel to it, so I opted not to suggest it. Rather, we use conference calls, skype calls, and a few servers and it seems to work just fine for us for the moment. I also wouldn't say people are in "hiding," but the vast majority of supporters don't do "office work" as it were, they're people that have expressed support for this, the number of people that do any work for this is much smaller.

Quote:That was a long way to say nothing at all.

If you're just going to dismiss what I have to say then perhaps I should stop wasting my time responding to you.

Quote:What is your platform beyond separation?

A green, renewable and sustainable economy, lowering the cost of living rather than the yearly increase. We have no desire to take part in conflicts like Canada sending troops to Mali, Afghanistan or Iraq. The Government of Canada claims to be about equal rights and LGBTQ protections, yet they continue to be involved with the likes of Saudi Arabia.

Quote:Why is separation better than voting out the current government?

We charge that the Liberal and Conservative parties are the same party; we view Canada as a One-Party State, and one that isn't democratic, more totalitarian democracy or even soft despotism.

Quote:If you are planning on rallying a separatist movement you may want to figure out how to operate a Wiki page.

I know enough about how to operate a wiki page, I just haven't had the time to have the article rewritten from the bottom up. But I don't suppose that answer is good enough for someone like you.

Quote:And why would the average Canadian abandon his identity and nation to form a new 'Madronan' republic instead of just voting for Tories and NDP?

Kingdom, not a Republic. If you're going to mock me at least get the facts right.

I feel I have already answered this in parts of previous answers and so see no point in repeating myself, however I can already hear your snort of derision.

Quote:To conclude: Your meme name which has never been a historic Canadian name except for a relatively new Beach Resort on Vancouver Island and will resonate with no one. Your platform is vague enough to sound like it entails anything, but beyond separation there is zero substance. Your constant mentioning of private information sounds like some kiddo playing classified badass on his laptop to get cool boy points.

The name "Madrona" actually came from a particular tree, not some beach resort on Vancouver island. To be frank I wasn't aware of the resort location, however that changes nothing. You say my information entails nothing but you dismiss anything I have to say, claim I'm some child role playing, and claim I'm trying to offer up some sort of meme with the name "Madrona," of which I am not aware of any nor have I offered any.
"Progress doesn't wait for conservatives."
~ King Shamus I, Kingdom of Madrona, 2016

His Majesty King Shamus the First of the Provisional Government of the Kingdom of Madrona

Member of the Madrona Sovereignty Movement in Canada

o Nationalist o Activist o Monarchist o Separatist o Humanist o Philanthropist o Realist o Research Scientist o Imperialist o Patriot o Progressive o
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#37
It seems that the majority of the things that you promised are just things people would usually want but not really end up fighting for. Its like how most people in the USA are against detaining immigrants and are against how most people in ICE custody are being treated. How many people are stopping ICE activities and busting the kids in cages out of custody?

None.

"I like your ideas" or "I'll support you/that" rarely, if ever, translate to "I am willing to take action to accomplish this."

I'm sorry man, but I highly doubt that your "support" is anything more than some Canadian Berniebros going off about this or that. People will take "The Kingdom of Madrona" seriously when they have public and open support for secession, as places like Québec or Newfoundland and Labrador.

From what I can tell, there's no "separate identity" for you to mold it around. For example, also in Western Canada, you have two secessionist movements in history. That of the Métis, which are a different ethnic/cultural group who speak French and/or Aboriginal languages, and have their own unique history. Something you can form a mold around. Furthermore, in places such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, and parts of BC, you have Anglophone conservatives who have many things in common with say, white conservative Americans living in places like Montana, the Dakotas, and Kansas. This is separate from white liberals in Vancouver, Ottawa, Aboriginal Canadians, and the Québecois. They identify with a more individualist identity.

Now, allow me to give a quote that's popularly attributed to one of my boys, Wilhelm II:
"...He builds legions but doesn't build a nation. A nation is created by families, a religion, traditions: it is made up out of the hearts of mothers, the wisdom of fathers, the joy and exuberance of children."

What makes a Madronan? E-secrecy? An environmentalist, isolationist policy sounds nice of course. Hell, if I ruled what I'd like to rule I'd bury what I could of Saudi Arabia under the sand they have so much of, but how does that make your nation a nation? What makes a Madronan a Madronan? I share a lot of your same values, such as environmentalism, social progressivism, monarchism, a love of science, humanism, etc etc -- am I a Madronan? It is very hard to build a nation out of ideals. Look at such "idealistic" nations as the USSR or the USA. They only became successful because they had a culture based near entirely on their ideas, and even then, it didn't always work out. The USSR was forged in a civil war, and the USA fought one over slavery and race. Subcultural issues were always a problem for them, and still are today, just like in Canada. Look at the conflicts between Russians and Ukrainians in the USSR, or Whites and basically everyone else (even other whites) at some point in the USA. This isn't to say that you can't have minorities and work, Hell, the plan to make Austria-Hungary into the "federation of equals" as proposed by Blessed Karl and his son Otto would've worked very well in my opinion, but how could Madrona get its own culture, let alone fix subcultural issues? What about Francophone Madronans? What about Madronans who are black, white, Jewish, Muslim, socially conservative? Where do they fit in? Is it better or worse than Canada? What Canadian would give up the right to vote under a possibly absolute Monarch?

Québec has a language and a French-based culture that makes it unique. The Métis have a language and a Franco-Aboriginal culture that makes them unique. People from the Southern USA had a nation forged on (granted, pretty bad) ideals and their own unique subset of American culture. "Southern Hospitality" still exists. So does calling people the N word and finding your cousin cute. Madrona has none of that. You cannot realistically form a national identity around embargoing the Saudis.

As much as I enjoy the idea of Micronations as something to have fun with or do as a hobby with friends (it is fun to rule your own nation as basically a benevolent dictator), actually seceding more than say, a literal bedroom republic is a bad idea.

Also, you deleted a high-quality meme on a forum that does not have high-quality memes. I am disappointed.
Indivisibiliter ac inseparabiliter!
Monarcho-Socialist
Will shoot for my boys Karl and Otto
Gott erhalte
Gott beschütze
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#38
(15 Jun 2018, 10:15:38)Walker391 Wrote:
(15 Jun 2018, 06:46:46)Suzuki Leōcor Wrote:
(15 Jun 2018, 02:28:08)Thomas Merrell Wrote: I'd like to point out that all of the KU's members have very few active citizens. Zenrax barely has one or two dozen active participants on a good day, Pacem doesn't have those numbers, and neither does New Providence at this point in time.

As you said, numbers don't matter nearly as much to begin with. If you've got a powerful reputation, all you need is yourself and your voice to accomplish your life's work.

I agree with Thomas on this point. I've panned it out that New Providence only needs 10 couples, who each have 2 or more children, to survive past the first generation. Such a small population size ensures that genetic mishaps will remain low among such a heterogeneous people, and in fact such population sizes are how most ethnic groups began. Of course, if New Providence is ever to be this great and beautiful city-state on an island that I dream it will be, we'd need more people to help build that dream within our lifetime. But realistically, most secessionist micronations don't need a lot of people to succeed in their national objectives, and New Providence is a good example of this.

This wasn't intended as an attack on numbers so to speak, many one man bedroom republics have strong micronationalists hold capacity to have a good reputation, I'd argue that can be made difficult by the stigma against it. It should be the case that if you conduct yourself in a cordial manner, with respect and integrity then you should go far within this community, earning admission into organisations such as the GUM etc.
I claim half of the U.S state of Kentucky yet I recognize all bedroom republics!
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#39
That's the case where things easily get sour. Unrealistic claims only compound the fact that in reality most of us run organizations of no real consequence. It doesn't matter what you claim, only if you control it through either rule of law or force (economic, martial, or otherwise).

Ground your organization in reality and people will be more inclined to eventually take it seriously once the ball gets rolling.
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